forgottenrealmsfandomcom-20200223-history
Talk:Gnome
Are gnomes from the Feywild? Logically, if gnomes were created in what is now Netheril, as The Grand History of the Realms suggests (page 9), they aren't originally from the Feywild. The mountain that crowned their primordial home was a Prime Material mountain, and the lake that formed from it is a Prime Material lake, not a Feywild lake. They may well have migrated to the Feywild subsequently, and they're still considered fey in 4th edition game-mechanics terms, but they didn't originate there. If Realms-specific sources contradict core sources, Realms-specific sources trump them. It's not that Realms gnomes are a "separate race" from 4th edition core gnomes, it's that the lore in 4e core books only represents a default suggestion from which world-specific supplements are free to deviate. We can assume they're accurate if Realms-specific sources don't disagree with them, but in cases where they do, they're not accurate for the purposes of this wiki. For example, in the Monster Manual 3 4th edition, skulks are said to have been created during the empire of Bael Turath by Graz'zt, while in the Realms they were created by the drow in -530 DR. -- Rowan Earthwood 19:53, June 26, 2011 (UTC) : To be fair, The Grand History doesn't say that that gnomes were created in Netheril, but that they were 'discovered' beneath kobold labyrinths. Though the Monster Manual 4th edition does say that gnomes are fey creatures, they could easily have come along with the first elves when they ventured into Abeir-Toril, and not discovered for many years. Cronje (talk ⋅ ) 20:02, June 26, 2011 (UTC) : It wasn't only the gnomes who were discovered there, but also the gemstones from which Garl Glittergold created the gnomes. Your interpretation suggests you believe the gnomes could have migrated to Abeir-Toril in -27000 DR, when the first elves came to the world. This is likely incorrect, as The Grand History states that Garl had "only begun" to create the gnomes in -24500 DR. The gems were on the Material Plane, and I don't think you're suggesting the gems themselves migrated with the elves, burying themselves beneath a mountain to await their transformation. The gems became gnomes thanks to "the touch of the lords of the Golden Hills." I think the most straightforward reading is that Garl traveled to Abeir-Toril, touched the gems (or "breathed life into them"), and made thereby gnomes from them in the same caves in which the gems originated. I suppose he could have mined them and lugged them over into the Feywild before breathing in them, but then we have to explain why there were also living gnomes there for kobolds to enslave. At the very least, Garl must have placed his creations on Abeir-Toril and the Feywild nearly simultaneously, if gnomes were already on the Material Plane while others of their species were still being fashioned. I feel safe in saying, therefore, that either gnomes originated in Netheril, or they originated in Netheril and the Feywild at the same time, created from gems that originated in Netheril. The only caveat is that the source is an in-character book, which might not be entirely accurate. -- Rowan Earthwood 20:32, June 26, 2011 (UTC) ::Actually, we know it's at least somewhat inaccurate, since the in-character text associates the creation of the urds with the First Rage of Dragons, while the out-of-character text states that the First Rage of Dragons occurred five hundred years before the creation of the urds. So something's fishy. I'll edit the relevant pages to note this. -- Rowan Earthwood 20:39, June 26, 2011 (UTC) Large noses What happened to their legendary noses of which they were so proud on the way from old D&D editions (which I read) to Forgotten Realms? Juraj103 (talk) 04:21, September 20, 2019 (UTC) :Neither the Monster Manual 1st edition nor the Player's Handbook 2nd edition described the gnome race as having pride of proboscis, although the illustration in the MM does show a gnome with a large nose. (But take a look at these images and you will see few exceptionally large noses.) This notion probably comes from The Complete Book of Gnomes & Halflings which states that gnome noses were a status symbol, especially between males. Core D&D books are allowed in the canon unless superseded by a Forgotten Realms source, and Races of Faerûn doesn't even mention gnome noses in the entire chapter on gnomes. Unless you can find a Realms source to verify the claim (and my search was far from exhaustive, so I could be wrong), it is left up to individual players and DMs to decide how much cultural significance nose length has in gnome society. —Moviesign (talk) 13:10, September 20, 2019 (UTC)